Why didn't the deputy shoot out the tires?

WOW, REALLY?!!

Amazing! What a Terrible tragedy! Praying for the family!

Let's hope there are no OCSD calls for service at Big Helyn's tonight.

WTF? Who are you trying to kid! Our hard earned tax dollars at work again.

Police use deadly force to do just that kill not shoot out tires or shoot arms and legs. This guy should have followed commands, he was a marine. I dont know if the shooting was justified but before you become outraged think about the situtation and police protocol that keeps all of us safe.

Since when is being 'irrational' punishable by death? Sounds like maybe they shouldn't be issued real bullets.

Based on mere suspicion, the deputy shot the father of two girls through the driver's side window...did he think of the impact of that action as the young girls watched this happen? This was extremely poor judgement on the deputy's part...he did not like that the man would not obey his commands and he himself became angry. The man brandished no weapon. Made no vocal threats. This is horrible!

This is OUT OF CONTROL! Based on the info so far this looks like ANOTHER poor representative of law enforcement. Use of deadly force is becoming the first choice instead of last resort.
How can we as citizens continue to let all of these people get away with "poor" judgement with minimal consequences, (Police, Politicians, Church leaders, Teachers, etc....) the get "above the laws treatment" by causing irreparable damages then do little if any jail time & receive full retirement benefits & often hired else where. While the law abiding citizens continue to turn a blind eye & in some cases defend these degenerates, WAKE UP!

CriticalThinkerInFV is correct, they use their weapon only to attempt to kill. There are too many dangers in shooting at a metal tire that has metal could bounce and hit someone else or anything else. Their weapon is usually a last resort where they feel death of themselves or others is imminent. If he drove off erratically could kids have possibly got hurt? Possibly, but there was no weapon threat, i don't know if you could say they were in immediate threat of death. As well i find it odd, if i was arrested for shooting someone and changed my story several times, I think the police detectives would be all in my ass about what the truth is. I agree i dont think any child would agree i would prefer you shoot my father to death in front of me because you thought he may have been acting weird. "This guy should have followed commands, he was a marine. " that is the stupidest comment ever. Just because your a Marine dont mean your a dog. He is a Sergeant of Marines, a Sergeant in the Marines can understand a lawful order and what doesnt sound right. Again we don't know that he heard correctly or what with the half ass reports they keep giving.... Again I am a Marine, and also generally I am all for supporting the police and their decisions they have a super hard job; but for this duputy's sake i hope they can some how prove this Marine had gone crazy becuase right now they are not looking good at all. The daughters may be only hope for Sgt Loggins getting justice.

Is
there
dashboard
camera
video??

Where
is
it??

On another note, it was dark the officer pulled up behind the truck that had tinted windows. so even if he put on spot light into back windows head rest would prevent him from seeing there were young kids in the back seat. So this Marine jumps out of the truck and walks away, at this time only one officer on scene still so his attention naturally would be to follow the guy walking from the truck he just pulled up on. Marine heads back to truck after 5 minutes that was facing toward the back of the school so when does this deputy see the kids they never got out of the truck. Lets say Marine takes off at this point . The Marine could only go foward one of the officers could have went all the way to the other exit. if he attempted to ram car Shoot away. if you look on google earth That Marine would have to drive a long way before he exited the school grounds but devils advocate they have split seconds to think so would they know he only had one way out of the school grounds?

V. Duvall are you serious? you have to be or related to law enforcement to be so bias. Do you think for one second that if the Marine had a weapon they wouldnt have pasted all over the news how a Marine attempted to attack a police officer forcing the officer to shoot him? or if he said "you sons of bitchs i am going to kill you" they wouldnt hurry up and come to their own defense? Whatever the Marine was"saying" obviously is up for ones interpetation. Which is why i think there is a dash cam and possibly mic on officers. They dont want to say he said something he didnt when there is proof he didnt. If they say that camera's werent on or broken i am going to laugh my ass off. Since now there are multiple officers on scene at the time of shooting and neither cars turned on camera for a confrontation or both were broke.

Damn! So if the cop was concerned about the children why on earth did he shoot the driver through the driver side window?.. or do shoot (into the car) knowing that the kids were in the backseat? This still doesn't make sense.. seems like the cop is trying to get his lie together to make him look like the freakin' hero! At first he feared for his life and then the next day... He feared for the life of the kids.. what's next. Manny was selling drugs on school grounds so he had to stop him?! I mean really.. Law enforcement has let me down once again! This idiot cop can go home and hug his wife.. play with his kids.. tuck 'em in at night.. What does Manny family get?! What about his children? The idiot cops couldn't put up baracades or tack strips to impair the vehicle? Concerned for the kids my @$$...
This story stinks of lies and deception!

This is from the OCSD Blotter. It basically says that:

At 0441::26 OCSD Unit 476 pulled over a vehicle.
At 0441::52 - Thirty seconds later a MB (male black) "TOOK OFF ON FOOT THRU GATE"
At 0444::58 - Three minutes later Unit 476 says that the "want" (the reason for making contact) is for "HIT AND RUN AND CHILD ENDANGERMENT".
At 0446::55 - Unit 476 requests OCFD medics.

Five minutes is a LONG time for all this to go down (count it out: one-1000, two-1000, Three-1000, etc). Did the SO kill the Marine before or after he made the "child endangerment" claim? This story is full of loose ends.

2/7/2012 07:05:56 : pos5 : HOVDEBM] MOVING ALL UNITS TO Y-TAC-S2 [2/7/2012 06:14:21 : pos13 : SHINEFM] SC AFTER HRS SERVICE ADVSD [2/7/2012 05:28:18 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 4S70 REQ 6 RESERVES [02/07/2012 05:25:33 : pos16 : MCFADDENGC] PIO WILLBE ENR [2/7/2012 05:21:45 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 4A32 10-97 MISSION 10-1 AREA [2/7/2012 05:08:20 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 473 AND 476 EN RT SUB [2/7/2012 04:56:57 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 4S70 MEDICS 97 [2/7/2012 04:50:53 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 4A32 1 IC [2/7/2012 04:50:14 : pos5 : SHINEFM] 10-39 OCFA [2/7/2012 04:46:55 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 476 REQ OCFA [2/7/2012 04:44:58 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 476 WANT IS HIT AND RUN AND CHILD ENDANGERMENT [2/7/2012 04:41:52 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Unit : 476 1 MB TOOK OFF ON FOOT THRU GATE [2/7/2012 04:41:26 : pos5 : SHINEFM] Landmark Comment: 992J2 92672 AREA = 75 1ST TURN OFF INTO PLOT

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differed from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviwed," Ok so after other people are interviewed you remember you werent in fear of your life? I dont know how you get confused about if you killed someone to protect your own life or someone elses. and like Mr Martin reports with his time frame that was posted 5 minutes? thats all the negotiating you could do is 5 mins before you pull your weapon? It dont make sense a 15 year veteran on the police force should 1. know better, i dont know if it would had made a difference it wasnt a Marine would people have just let it slide? 2 have his own tactics from experience in dealing with distraught people on how to de escalade a situation. I am praying this officer was black otherwise people are going to pull the race card for sure. Thanks for that post Douglas Martin.

Sounds like a job for anonymous... We are legion.

We do not forgive.... We do not forget.... Http:WWW.anonops.org

Okay so the guy drives off....okay follow him till he surrenders dont kill him!!!!

Alex,
Manny was a friend of mine and this incident just seems all too bizzare. This whole story just isn't right and I truly hope that the truth comes out and this isn't just swept under the rug! Please keep the family in prayer because they will definitely need it.

Anonymous strong.
If we can access the president of Syria's email.... Do you think we can access your silly ocsd evidence and emails? Silly police... Good at murder....bad @ computer. You will be exposed... We are legion... We do not forgive... We do not forget.

All to often some in Law enforcement choose to fire their weapons and claim self defense or on the pretense of protecting others. Is using a fire arm against an UNARMED civilian the best choice? I dont think so. Their were many other options available to the officer if he truly felt the girls or he were in danger. Based on the story presented and because the officer changed his story leads me to believe the officer was NOT justified in the shooting. Moreover, he is now making up stories to cover his butt. This is truly a tragic incident that shall affect all involved for a very long time. Those poor innocent young girls will now have to grow up without their HERO and be scared for life. I hope there will be justice and retribution for the family. But, using history as an indicator he will unfortunately get off scott free.

There are any number of reasons that a person could have been unable to follow commands: intoxication, deafness, stroke, mental health issues, etc. The list of unarmed victims of police violence, almost always young men, mostly people of color, continues to grow daily: Manuel Loggins (Marine), Oscar Grant, Allen Kephart, Reggie Doucet, Jr., Doug Zerby, Zac Champommier, Erik Scott (West Point Grad-Army), DJ Henry, James Earl Rivera, Joey Pinasco, Christian Portillo, Ramarley Graham, Kelly Thomas, Caesar Cruz, Julian Collender, Ernest Duenez, Jr., Jose Guarena (Marine), Bubba Gutierrez, and so many more from decades past. Search these names. These were good people. The problem appears to be that the culture in law enforcement promotes a shoot first mentality and case law, like Graham v. Conner, allows enough wiggle room for the cops to get out killing for which they are responsible by claiming to have been in fear for their lives. Adding insult to injury, the cops are allowed to investigate themselves, an inherently biased arrangement that the public should be repulsed by.

Watch for anonymous to release the name of the officer..
Family members
Social security #
All current and past addresses...
Known partners/associates
Past discipline measures
Employment history
Badge id
Education
Sexual orientation
past arrests with african americans
Etc....

Monday morning quarterbacks. None of you were there. My prayers are with both the family of the Marine and the police officer.

Http://WWW.anonops.org

Does anyone know if the daughters ever got out of the car?? If they had just driven through a gate and we're about to go on their normal morning walk, I'm sure they were awake. So if they felt threatened by their Dad, who had walked off away from the car, and they saw police officers there who could provide them safety from their Dad, why would they have stayed in the car?? (BTW, the OC Register article says that Amormino said the girls were screaming in the car, but Amormino wasn't there, either)
Maybe they didn't feel any danger from their Dad. Maybe there were cops outside the car with their guns drawn looking for their Dad, and staying in the car seemed like the safer option. It's hard to believe that you would think the girls were in danger (from their Dad) but then stayed in the car rather than seek police protection. Their knew Dad was a Marine. They knew he didn't have a gun. Why would they stay in the car if they felt threatened by him? That doesn't make any sense...

I really hope they have some dashboard video and the timestamps match this log:
4:41:26 Landmark Comment: 992J2 92672 AREA = 75 1ST TURN OFF INTO PLOT
4:41:52 Unit : 476 1 MB TOOK OFF ON FOOT THRU GATE
4:44:58 Unit : 476 WANT IS HIT AND RUN AND CHILD ENDANGERMENT
4:46:55 Unit : 476 REQ OCFA
4:50:14 10-39 OCFA
4:50:53 Unit : 4A32 1 IC
4:56:57 Unit : 4S70 MEDICS 97
The Sheriff's said they were looking for him away from the car for about 5 minutes. 3 minutes in they called it in as child endangerment. At 5 minutes in they're calling for the ambulance. When were shots fired again? How long was he away from the car and they couldn't find him?? How many backup deputies showed up and when?? There's a reason they installed dashboard cameras. We don't want to have to rely on eyewitnesses and recollections.
Let's see the video!! Who pays for that video, anyway?? Who 'owns' the video footage? The People??

Anonymous will get that video if it exists....no reason it shouldn't... Along with all the other details
We do not forgive ... we do not forget ...
Http://WWW.anonops.org

It is hard to wake up some days and not feel like the world is crumbling all around us. It is remarkable what we humans are capable of and how devastating one split decision can be. In times like these, it can be difficult not to feel alone and frustrated. But the human spirit has shown great resilience throughout history and when tragedy strikes, we often miraculously manage to join together, pick up the pieces, and push through immense challenges. It is because of this powerful strength that I ask anyone who knew Manny and would like to show their support for his family, anyone who knows what it is like to lose someone you love & respect, and anyone who has ever felt alone to please come out for a memorial service this coming Sunday (the 12th) at 8pm at the San Clemente Police Department. The address is: 100 Avenida Presidio. San Clemente. 92672. Your show of peaceful support would be greatly welcomed and appreciated, more than you could know.

again...please, anyone who knew Manny and would like to show their support for his family, anyone who knows what it is like to lose someone you love & respect, and anyone who has ever felt alone, please come out for a memorial service this coming Sunday (the 12th) at 8pm at the San Clemente Police Department. The address is: 100 Avenida Presidio. San Clemente. 92672. Your show of peaceful support would be greatly welcomed and appreciated, more than you could know.

May Manny rest in peace may his three daughters and the child his wife is carrying find calm in the midst of this terrible storm.

Margaret,

If I believed in conspiracy theories I would say you were put here to try and drum up support for the deputy. Of course I know that's not true. They may be saying that the cop feared for the girls safety now but he did in fact say earlier that " He was threatened " by Loggins. While the real reasons for him shooting Loggins are a mystery the fact remains that a 15 year veteran of the force should know better. There is no amount of training an officer can get that would allow him to predict that a bullet will not ricochet inside a vehicle.

The police are already starting to cover their own *@*@* by not defending it. Everything about Loggins has, so far, proven to be legit. From people who know him to people who worked with him. What everybody also knows is that 15 year veteran of the force shot a marine in the back..twice while he and his kids were in their car, he says first that he felt threatened then changes his story to fear for the kids and last but not least the secrecy behind the whole incident. Everyone knows that the military gets 24hrs before they can say anything but when it comes to local police if it was some crack dealer it would be all over the news that day. They needed time to get a story together that would place the blame on the deputy but in a way that made him out to be the "hero". Face it this cops is going to burn for this. The public will demand it.

It is utterly rediculous the biased anti-police statements being made by individuals who have little to no knowledge of the events that unfolded in this tragic event. I will admit that the police force should do a better job at organizing it's facts and statements before releasing any information, because now it opens the door for all the conspiracy theorists abound to make such ludicrous statements based solely on biased anti-establishment beliefs. No one knows what has unfolded at the scene except for a few adults, one of which is now dead, and a few traumatized children. It will be difficult and time consuming to ascertain the truth from this tragic event. Please stop assuming you know what happened and wait for the facts to be released. We have no idea what happened.

Manny could have been making verbal threats that he was going to go murder his children, or it is possible the police officer may have misconstrued the information exchange and acted improperly in using deadly force. We just don't know. People may vouch for Manny and the Police Officer in question saying they are both great family men, and would never do anything to harm his children, another individual, etc. That may be the case when they are in their right minds, but one would assume that either Manny or the Police Officer must have been in a different state of mind, whether chemically (knowingly or unknowingly drugged) or biologically induced (i.e. manic, psychosis, sleep deprivation, PTSD, etc) to behave in a manner so out of character.

Yeah, no weapon a 3500 lb car couldn't possibly be a weapon, huh? The fact that the child was in the back proves the Marine had no regard for anybody's safety. If the Marine will gravely endanger his own daughter, do you really think he would take a second thought about taking out a bunch of people?

Police officers have a tough job that takes split second decisions. They don't decide whether or not somebody wants a bag or not. Lives hang in the balance. You want justice? Then support the decision to take potentially take a life to save many.

This I am sure was not and has not been easy for the deputy. He has to not only live with his decision, but listen to all of you people call him out. When you go through you day today and the toughest question you ask yourself is blue cheese or Italian. Think about how hard a life changing decision that is.

Yeah making a tough decision is indeed stressful. I guess that cop who shot that handcuffed kid in the back while he was on the ground would know. Perhaps that cop who shot that homeless man in Seattle. I'm not biased by any means I love cops. I have had the pleasure of dealing with great, respectful cops. I also know that some cops shouldn't be cops at all and as they get older and are with the force for a long time they get jaded. Not that this cop is THAT cop but when you have an outstanding record for one guy and a guy no one knows that can't get his story straight ...I don't know. It seems really cut and clear to most. Play politically correct if you must. I get it

Elvis..
Let's say you are correct in your theory.. Why would the deputy change his story?! First Sgt Loggins reached into his SUV and the deputy feared for his life.. NOW it's... he feared for the lives of the children which encouraged him to fire into the vehicle while they were in the backseat.. Which is it? The second excuse doesn't make sense either. Even though I wasn't there (none of us were) the 2 articles leaves sooooo many holes and it seems as though the cop was entirely wrong for this. We've seen it on the news before when a police task force was dispatched to subdue someone, baracades, tack strips... and other measures were used to end something without ending a life. The cop exhausted all options especially being a 15 year veteran. Initially I thought this was a rookie... but knowing that he wasn't just makes it even harder to digest! But the beauty (and the heartbreaking) of all this is that there are 2 witnesses that can tell everything that they saw. The truth will come out! The children in the car ages 9 and 14, will tell it all! They aren't babies... They are old enough to give an accurate account of what happened.. A Bitersweet moment... I may get a lot of flack for my next sentence.. But before you respond to this.. Know that Manny was friend of mine and I want but justice... I'm glad there are witnesses because if it wasn't, the cop could essentially get away with MURDER!

Air Force. "So if the cop was concerned about the children"Good.-- and later-- Chris."The Sheriff's said they were looking for him away from the car for about 5 minutes. 3 minutes in they called it in as child endangerment. At 5 minutes in they're calling for the ambulance"

If Manny did run from the Car would not the Sheriff first Clear the Car First? On seeing the Children , you would think the Sheriff would automatically, place the Children in his patrol police car for their "Protective Custody," Safety First? Then run the licence Plate on Manny's Car, to see who they wear dealing with? Be fore running off in the dark Bang Bang .

Was toxicology tests also taken of the Sheriff, in this Civilian shootings? With out Law and Order we all will slip in to Anarchy. And our Finest are holding the line for America. And our highest respect goes to both groups. So what really Happened hear and Why? Ronald Douglas Kennedy

Why are police officers taught that their own lives are more valuable than the lives of ordinary citizens?

Why do police officers have the right to kill citizens over a PERCEIVED threat?

These are the questions I believe we should be asking ourselves.

A police officer's actions should be held to a higher standard than what is allowed now. They have the power to end our lives in the name of law and order.

My condolences to those who lost and are suffering.

The daughters in the back seat, and the squad car video will inevitably be the key to unlocking what really happened in this trajic incident. We will all have to wait until that information is released. Until then speculation will only further the fuel in this already firey incident. I urge people not to predispose what happened until the facts come out. They will come out the Military looks out for themselves, just as the police department do. If there was injustice it will be brought to light.

Air Force --Agreeing and adding a thought --

To me this is a nightmare and I was supremely surprised at the wife's mini interview on the news last night. She seemed in shock, so calm, considering this event changed her life forever. What I find is that the shock will subside and she and her girls will get the help and support they need to get through this. It'll be tough with the media circus, of course. As for the investigation into the deputy who shot the Marine, isn't there a jurisdiction issue if the man who was shot is an "active duty" officer? In other words, doesn't NCIS get involved here as well? Just a question...

I still can't understand why I haven't heard this story on CNN or any other nat'l news source. Being that there are so many holes and changes in the story, I thought by now, they would have broadcasted something! Had this story gone the other way.. Marine kills Deputy in CA, then this would have been headlined across the nation.

Elvis,
Shut the f*@#k up. You didn't know this marine, this man, this brother in bed arms, this father to many!!! How dare you assume for the brief second or minute that Sgt Loggins would endanger the life of his family! This was a God fearing family oriented man! He loved people and wanted to make a change in the world by helping others where he could. So don't even speak down on him in that manner. I do believe all things work according to Gods holy will and plans and i know the just will prevail. And Elvis it is not your beloved deupty sherrif!

The unfortunate part of this is that those 2 children saw their father shot & killed right in front of their eyes!! Just think how those children are feeling now!!! This memory will be with them for the rest of their lives!
Imagine someone being shot & killed in front of you, let alone your own father... Blood everywhere!!! How disgusting!!
My heart goes out to those children... God bless!

CNN is a very biased station, in my opinion. It was proven during the wars in Iraq. There would be one set of news we would hear here, and something completely different on the BBC. So, let's be glad that we don't have CNN involved. As much as I like Terry Moran (the way he delivers his news freely, with no holds barred), I feel that the station he works for wants to glorify things, make them appear better or worse than they really are. Let's keep this subject here in California, where it belongs, especially in the OC, where the tragedy took place.

I'm a little tired of the standard police attitude, like from the end of the movie Training Day, that they're the cops, and we just live here. There's no reason to delay releasing any evidence (like the dashboard video, any audio from the scene or radio traffic/calls), other than to protect the deputies. The normal concept of preserving evidence for trial is a little skewed, since who would normally be the Accused is already Deceased. There's not going to be a trial for the victim. The only reason to hold back the dashboard video is to save it for the deputy's trial.
A fact that I know will be important is when exactly did the deputy, or deputies, realize there were kids in the car? As the car pulled in, or when they were out looking for the driver, or just when the driver came back to the car?? It was called in as child endangerment 3 minutes after the initial call. Even without the dashboard video, build the timeline from there...

One comment on the shooting in the car I too have to bring up because I am a mom of two...it disgusts me to think that a father is shot in his own car WITH the kids present. A split second to shoot the guy instead of a taser gun on him BEFORE he even got into the car (unless he was running to the car and the officer can't catch him?) is something I hope is defined thoroughly in this investigation... Justice is not sweet unless this part is proven as assumed here.

I do realize that the police on scene know nothing about the driver's background, that he was a Marine or a Christian family man, and have to go on just what they see before them, all the while making spilt-second decisions that will have a lifetime of consequences. I get that.
Even taking the deputy's perspective, I have to believe he was assuming the worse, showing excessive force and not presuming innocence. Do you think he even thought for an instant that maybe it was just a guy taking his kids to go workout, and had driven through a gate that's never locked?? If I did that, I would be pretty pissed about having to get my car fixed, about how much grief my wife is going to give me and what my new car insurance premium was going to go up to, and wouldn't be thinking about getting arrested or questioned by police.
Did the deputy assume the driver was drunk, or on drugs, or had abducted the kids or something?? That's where the prejudice and racism starts to creep in. Would the same assumptions have been made if the victim wasn't Black? Would a Black cop have given the victim more benefit of the doubt? (I'm guessing the cop is white, which hasn't been released by police.)

The dash cam apparently was working.. Why hasn't the footage been released to the public..Normally, it would have been released by now..

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=8539913

I've been following up on the sad death of Sgt. loggins and the comments people have made. All i can say is things don't add up and something smells rotten inrk. If that cop shot Manny cuz he feared for the lives of the two girls then why on earth did he shoot in the car when a bullet could have easily ricocheted and struck one or both the girls? Seems to me better judgment should have been used. Just sayin...

again... anyone who knew Manny and would like to show their support for his family, anyone who knows what it is like to lose someone you love & respect, and anyone who has ever felt alone, please come out for a *candlelight vigil* this coming Sunday (the 12th) at 8pm at the San Clemente Police Department. The address is: 100 Avenida Presidio. San Clemente. 92672. Your show of peaceful support would be greatly welcomed and appreciated, more than you could know.

FYI for all curious NCIS is investigating.

what I do not see on the police report timestamp, is the police officer supposably calling for backup or any other deputy radioing in that they are in route. they said there were other officers surrounding the field

they claim they ordered him to come back from the field, but they could not see hiim so did not see when he came back towards the vehicle. so like someone else already said the police did not take endangered children out of the truck when they have a chance

Baased on nothing more than a brief interation with the suspect, the cop thought it "seemed dangerous" to let him drive away. So, the cop shot him dead. That's the justification for taking this man's life? Seriously?

http://www.ncis.navy.mil/ContactUs/Pages/ReportaCrime.aspx

My gut fee seems to be that the following is what happened:

The cop was alseep. The marine pulled into the lot, hit the gate, got out, went to see what he'd hit and the damage to the Yukon. Cop hears crash and wakes up. He drives over to investigate, sees a black man coming out of the field and returning to his car. He tells him to stop. Maybe the marine doesn’t know he’s a cop or just doesn’t doesn’t listen, gets in the car to drive away and groggy cop shoots him. I’m betting the marine was shot before the cop claimed he was stopping him for hit and run and child endangerment.

Were lights and siren used to alert Sgt. Loggins? OCSD deputies can endanger other lives in apprehending a statutory "criminal"? This deputy needs to be tried for manslaughter under color of authority.

? Douglas what is that for? They are investing this case, I have confirmed it. but just like the police they are not going to be able to disclose anything until investigation is complete.

Police Capt V. Duvall,
How about you take a look at the link I posted that says the dash cam was working and then reply. And seeming that you know all about procedures and media.. I take it that YOU know that the footage wouldn't have been released by now.. How many times have you tuned to CNN and watch dash cam footage about a suspect doing something illegal? Don't respond to any of my post until YOU have all of your facts together.. Otherwise you will indeed look like a ##$%@^$#@)! I was told by the Patch to watch my language so I'm sure you can figure out what I'm saying.. No need to respond.. you'll only appear to be desperate to prove your point! Semper Fi!

At Chris.. No problem about the link.. Hopefully it's tamper proof.. And I'm hoping that it can shed some light as to what took place.

Kind of random/off-topic, but something to think about:
Why was the gate locked? Who locked it?? Not that they have any culpability, but if it wasn't locked/closed, Loggins wouldn't have driven through it, and the cop probably wouldn't have stopped him for speeding. Even if he did, it would have been with the kids and him getting out of the car to go walk the track, and not with damage to the car and the suspicion of reckless disregard for property/safety. How different things would be right now if that gate hadn't been locked...

Everyone on here has something to say but do you really think he would harm those kids??? HELL NO he loved those girls and everywhere he went those girls were right there! I have known Manny since September 2003 and he was one of my first leaders and I have stayed in contact with him. He loved to work out because we would go morning, afternoon, and evening after work. Manny didn't drink nor smoke and he was by far one of the healtiest people I have known. Police are DIRTY and I don't care who has a problem with me saying this. I have family and freinds in that area and have known three different incidents where the cops out there have shot and killed people for no reason. So don't give me that the police job is difficult and they have to make decisions! We Marines have to make decisions to and we know that was some BS!!!!!!!! I don't care how well you are trained in shooting you never fire at and unarmed person no matter what!!!! So ELVIS and MARGARET MUELLER go sit on it because what's wrong is wrong and those girls were of no harm.

I am becoming increasingly sorry for Chauncy, Alex, Ms. Air Force, and others who lost their friend and mentor. I HATE that this happened in San Clemente!

Yes, where is mouthy Margaret today? Bemoaning the fact that the general public has the audacity to question a strange shooting with her former pals in Cypress, where she used to work as a dispatcher?

One of the perks of being a pig, a license to Kill First, Ask Questions Later.

It was an honest mistake, and I'm sure he's sorry. He'll apologize.

Guess the children won't be in any danger, now that they have to live the remainder of their lives with the memory of watching their father get shot and killed.

Before someone says that not all pigs are a-holes, you're probably right. Just most of them. I hope one of them doesn't shoot or tase me because of this post.

I am actually glad Margaret is NOT commenting. She made me stick to my stomach. Yeah we all don't know the "facts" this is true and hey maybe Sgt Loggins DID loose his mind and was threatening causing the police to shoot him. Buuuut if he did why all the story changing and not just posting the dash cam to shut everyone up? As bad as it sounds, I almost wish Sgt Loggins did for some reason go crazy so at least he died for somewhat of a reason. Right now it just looks like it was a poor decision with nasty poor cover ups and his daughters have to pay the worst for this mistake.

I guess when I first read the story, I missed the part about the gentleman being black. That explains everything, especially in South Orange County. Unfortunately it's usually tough to prove that the pig is also a racist, but I'm sure if the guy had been white, the pig would have given him a bit more benefit of doubt.

The pig probably had not had his donut and coffee yet, so he wasn't thinking straight. Get that guy an old fashioned, he deserves it. All in a day's work for OC's finest.

ATTENTION: Because of family wishes, we would like to reschedule the candlelight vigil originally set for sunday evening at 8pm. We are sorry for the inconveniance but we will keep you posted on the specific details of the new vigil time and venue as soon as possible. Thank you for all your support.

is there video of the wifes interview online?

I couldn't find anything about a recent bomb threat at SCHS, just the one from last September, but there is this very informative YouTube posted on the OCSD's own blog:

http://youtu.be/-G1ApUEXcbo

It's a 17-minute video, produced by the State of Oregon, but goes into the Hollywood myths and assumptions about Officer Involved Shootings, and at least half of the myths apply to this case. I'm not sure how much California State and OC law differs from Oregon, but I certainly like the idea of any other agency besides OCSD taking the lead in investigating tragedies like this. CHP or San Diego County Sheriffs would be a much better choice in gathering everyone together to hash it out as quickly as possible, without the taint of everything being practically in-house between OCSD and the County DA. We need to remove all stain of corruption when it comes to investigating something this blatantly suspect in terms of use of excessive force.

I'm going to try to let this go for the weekend and let those in charge do their jobs, but I do wish this would get picked up by a larger media outlet, to keep the pressure up and Margaret Muellers of the world from thinking they'll be any possibility of a white-wash or cover-up.

Two additional sources for understanding the problem of police violence:

http://youtu.be/hyrTZZKGP78

https://www.facebook.com/pages/United-Citizens-Against-Police-Violence/147770871972810

Chris good eye! I was the one who commented about bomb threat, i didnt notice the 2011. Was just by chance it was close to the same date a year later.

When some posters here refer to police as "pigs" it makes them no better than Margaret. I am sure that the officer who killed Loggins is probably in a lot of pain right now. Taking a life (even if warranted) has to take a toll on anybody who is not a sociopath. And as more information about the character and values of the dead family man becomes known, it must be close to unbearable for the officer. Regardless, the truth must be uncovered.

What is a father doing keeping or having his children out at such a terrible hour? Why was he in the school parking lot? There is no reason to drive into a school parking lot. Judith Smalley

The closed gate is a big factor in this. Since the Marine father went there regularly, he may have thought the gate was unlocked. The police blotter says he went thru gate ON FOOT. ( does not say he crashed thru it with vehicle). Says wanted for a hit and run. What did he hit? Another car? A human? Also, the news articles keep repeating he drove in speeding and rammed the gate. The only witness that could be saying that was THE COP THAT KILLED HIM. Also, if the cop was in his car doing paperwork, the light would have been on in his cab. It would take some time to adjust to the dark, so his perception would be off. And if I understand correctly where this vehicle was at, there is NO OTHER EXIT, cop car behind his, and if the cop car was behind him with headlights on the Marine father would not be able to see toward the squad car. Where did the girls go? Did they run for their lives??? There were bloodhounds searching at the school during zero period.

Also there was another exit, but it was not close to where the truck was and not a straight away where he was going to gain speed they couldnt pursue him especially since they had police surrounding the field so he couldnt escape on foot, I imagine there were more then 2 police vehicles. But thats just my assumption i wasnt there.

V. Duvall,
I wasn't being rude at all.. I displayed the same attitude and behavior as you. Nonetheless.. I hope the dash cam, that WAS working, shows what happens and that it hadn't been tampered with... even if the mic wasn't working... hopefully we can at least "see" what happened. RIP Manny!

Okay ladies and gentlemen...I just spent the last 20 minutes or so reading about this very interesting situation. One thing that I can't find a good answer to is WHY was there a want on this person as described in an earlier post?
4:44:58 Unit : 476 WANT IS HIT AND RUN AND CHILD ENDANGERMENT
He was obviously not in his right mind, or at least so it seems, if he had this want out on him. Who reported it and what are the circumstances? The only people there are the people that were there. Wait until more information becomes available and then, if appropriate, start your dirt throwing. And BTW, I did just join so that I could comment. I don't know anyone involved but I feel for all involved because either way it's an ugly situation.

R.A.P., someone earlier explained that that's just the terminology the Police us when calling for backup, like the 'want' is the answer to the question: "Why do you WANT backup?". So it equates to calling for backup to handle a hit and run driver with child endangerment. Someone with more knowledge of Police protocols could probably explain more...

I'm tired of hearing "he wouldn't hurt his family, he was a good Christian..." hello??! Josh Powell, good God-fearing boy hacked up and burned his baby boys recently. As far as the rest of it, you people weren't there. You can speculate all day, but the only truth here is that you don't know the truth yet.

However, some things are hard to ignore... I can't imagine he'd have fired into that vehicle if he'd known those kids were in it... I'll leave the rest alone.. too many what-ifs, maybes, if ands buts how's when's.... tragic either way

We are all doomed once we allow policemen to fire at unarmed civilians. There simply are no extenuating circumstances allowed. That area on Pico has been crawling with aggressive cops for years. This should not come as a surprise. Although, Mr. happy trigger finger never expected to shoot a black man who was also a squeaky clean bible banging Marine. While tragic, blame city officials for allowing these cops to behave this way in their town. We are all guilty.

Let me see if I get this straight.

The cop says he was looking out for the interests of the children. So he shoots their father right in front of their own eyes? Sounds like an itchy trigger finger.

They'll have to live with that image burned into their brains for the rest of their lives. That's a helluva way to look out for someones interests.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

"Long before Josh Powell killed himself and his 7 and 5-year-old sons in a fire on Sunday, the pages of his parents’ divorce file portrayed him as a seriously troubled teen who attempted suicide, killed pet gerbils, once threatened his mother with a butcher knife and early on adopted his father’s allegedly disparaging view of women"
Is this the same person your talking about EM???? Someone who had severe issues as a child that were never properly addressed? Thats a good comparison, thanks for your two cents; reading your post wasted 5 seconds of my life i will never get back.
Yes we can only speculate, but if you think everything is normal in this case your seriously Ill yourself. IF the police did everything right they would immediately have disclosed why they were forced to shoot this man (before they found out he was a Marine) Then they pull ID and find out he is active duty Marine? and supervisors question what happen? Then they themselves dont agree so go into "s*it how can we somehow make this look justified mode. It's understandble if there is a way that it could look like the deputy was just in his shooting, then they wouldn't have so much poop on their face. Im sure right now a bunch of scummy lawyers are trying to get the big brains together to twist the story. Again if it was cut and dry and Sgt Loggins did something wrong they would be happy to have pasted the internet and news with how a Marine Messed up

Something else just occurred to me regarding the victim not obeying the deputy's commands. As a parent, what is your instinct as far as protecting your kids from danger? Mine is pretty strong, to shield my kids from danger, or better yet remove them from sources of danger as quickly as possible. Put that in the context of Loggins coming back to his car, and seeing a cop with gun drawn, knowing that his kids are in the car, being a Marine and knowing what guns can do, and what would your reaction be to the deputy telling you get on the ground, when you don't have any weapons on you?? Would you obey the cop's directions?? Would you come into any available light so that the deputy could see that you're not armed, and then try to get your kids away from the guy with the gun as soon as possible?? I know I would. Perhaps the 'threatening' language from the victim was something like' "I'm a Marine, don't point that gun at me" or "you better get that gun away from my kids before I...".
Before all the hard-line pro-Police supporters on here talk about how important it is to follow Police commands, consider how strong an instinct it is to protect your kids from danger, even from a cop waving a gun around.

Scary... nauseating.

I should have said "its hard to imagine that to be an appropriate course of action?" Details. My point about Josh Powell was only to say that outside people's perception of someone is not always the reality of the situation. This goes for anyone. Seems lik families and/or communities are quite often shocked by behavior they never would have seen coming.. for anyone who thought they really knew someone... all just very sad and my thoughts are with those kids and the families left to pick up the pieces. No ill will intended.

8:47 am on Saturday, February 11, 2012 Any answers to the Four questions posted yesterday.
"Clearing the Vhicle is the Key Question" If cleard we would be looking at a different story for all. thanks Ron

Air Force. "So if the cop was concerned about the children"Good.-- and later-- Chris."The Sheriff's said they were looking for him away from the car for about 5 minutes. 3 minutes in they called it in as child endangerment. At 5 minutes in they're calling for the ambulance"

If Manny did run from the Car would not the Sheriff first Clear the Car First? On seeing the Children , you would think the Sheriff would automatically, place the Children in his patrol police car for their "Protective Custody," Safety First? Then run the licence Plate on Manny's Car, to see who they wear dealing with? Be fore running off in the dark Bang Bang .

Was toxicology tests also taken of the Sheriff, in this Civilian shootings ?

I'm just going off what people in the community told the media. If it was common knowledge that Powell was nuts, she doubts her friend would have married him. Those facts were publicized after the fact. No need to be so nasty. Glad we're all adults here.

She being Powell's wife's best friend.

I am very cynical about the police. This cop looks guilty as hell, however, my point is ONLY that you don't always know someone like you think you do. Tearing each other apart because of differences of opinion will have no bearing on the outcome and just puts more weight on already heavy hearts. Maybe I AM ill for even involving myself. Lesson learned.

A Sergeant in the USMC was irrational? Not likely!
By the time you become a Sergeant in the USMC you have learned to handle a lot pressure!
A frightened member of the San Clemente OCSD? More than likely!
Perhaps a boycott of San Clemente by Marines and Camp Pendleton civilian employees will show our true feelings and also the desire to get to the truth!

Em, no ill will intended? "I'm tired of hearing "he wouldn't hurt his family, he was a good Christian.." In case you weren't able to tell most the people on this post are in support of Sgt Loggins. There is friends, family and co-workers posting and reading you compare this Marine to a looney. You quote the wifes friends, but I took my quote from the Powells own family. Ok maybe you didnt have ill will intended but your choice of words just happen to be very poor. I am sure there is a site full of margarets somewhere that would be happy to read your post.

Well said V. Duvall. Let's see what the facts actually are, rather than suggesting boycotts. I forgot about the marine planting an explosive device earlier this year. To follow Huddleston's "logic", the citizenry should have boycotted the marine base. Sometimes stupidity knows no bounds.

Flannery, what incident was this?

Yes I think he was from Pendleton, maybe not.James, on the first day of the 2011/2012 school year someone from the Military had either placed or threatened to place an explosive device at SCHS. The entire student body spent that whole day on the football field. Huge media event.

Rather than protest the City of San Clemente, why not go to the next City Council meeting, which will be two weeks from the date of the shooting, and ask what the progress is on thecase and if the City is taking any action in response to the tragedy:
Tuesday 02/21/2012
City Council Meeting
(TV-Channel 30 and HD-Channel 854)
6:00pm - Regular Meeting - City Hall Council Chambers

The next County Supervisors meeting (2/28) is a week after the next San Clemente City Council meeting. Here's our District's Supervisor's contact info in the meantime:
Patricia C. Bates
Supervisor, 5th District
County of Orange
333 W. Santa Ana Blvd.
Santa Ana, CA 92701
Phone 714.834.3550
Fax: 714.834.2670
PatBates@ocgov.com

V.devull, that was personnel from Pendleton, but he was a NAVY Corpsman who was U\A aka AWOL. They found a notebook in his room that suggested he may have intended to plant an explosive, but for the safety of the kids they removed all the kids from perceived danger; who would think to do that right?..lol.
Any how I know we are a department of the Navy, but Marines are like no other branch so really hard to compare us. Are we perfect? By no means, every Marine was once a civillians the Corps only changes those who accept the change, but generally the ones doing knuckle head stuff are new lower ranking Marines. Higher ranks don't get in trouble? Yes but its not as often. Same as police I like to think mybe in my nieve head that 90% of cops are there for the right reason and do a great job; and generally the ones who mess up are the newer ones. Thats why this 15 year veteran has me confused. Is he 10% who is a bad apple and made it this far? or is there more to the story we don't know, but why not defend the department if so? Like someone else mentioned a lot of the police forces are made up of prior Military. Most Marines who plan on getting out regardless or their job, have a plan of being a cop when they get out. So again maybe me being a Marine i am biased but with what facts we DO have I am giving Sgt Loggins the benefit of the doubt. People bashing a Marine who we do know or a dupty no one yet knows? I think hey lets respect this Marine and his Family.

1. If the officer pulled him over he should of blocked the car in as he left it for sure.
2. The first thing to be done is check the car out for other occupants.
3. If you want to stop the subject you would NEVER let him reenter the car. PERIOD.
4. Kill him to end the siege. Claim you were trying to save yourself or others. Beat him like Rodney King while 10 cops watch and cheer!!!!

Lee your right on point

The crickets are chirping. Nothing from the OCSD or news media about this incident. Our troops are at war and I know rules of engagement/escalation of force policies are drilled into their heads. This type of incident is not tolerated in our military. Why is it tolerated in our Sheriffs department? Imagine if our troops did the same thing to an Iraqi/Afghani? Imagine the outcry? This shooting occured at home and from what I've read so far, there is no logical reason for this shooting. It does not add up and it does not make sense. I may change my tune if I see a dash cam video/deputy's audio device. Since it's been a week I doubt the OCSD has anything that would justify this shooting. If it was a mistake the OCSD needs to have a bit of empathy and explain to Loggins family what happened. Then explain to the people they serve and protect how an unarmed man can be executed in front of his kids.

The silence from OCSD is deafening.
CYA right ?
http://www.copblock.org/

Has the PIG been cleared yet?

San Clemente's Congressman is also up for re-election this year, and should feel obligated to weigh in on this issue:
http://calvert.house.gov/Contact/
but with the re-districting taking place this year, Darrell Issa will most likely be San Clemente's Congressman starting next year, and he's prior military and has been Camp Pendleton's Congressman for a while, so he may be worth contacting as well:
Office of Congressman Darrell Issa
District_Office
1800 Thibodo Road, Suite #310
Vista, CA 92081
Phone: 760.599.5000
Fax: 760.599.1178

This is from the Orange County website...I would laugh but it is waaaaay too tragic.

Sandra Hutchens
Sheriff-Coroner

Mission Statement

The men and women of the Orange County Sheriff's Department are dedicated to the protection of all we serve. We provide exceptional law enforcement services free from prejudice or favor, with leadership, integrity, and respect.

Core Values

Integrity without compromise;
Service above self;
Professionalism in the performance of duty;
Vigilance in safeguarding our community.

The Orange County Sheriff is also the Coroner. I have had personal experience with the conflict-of-interest that this situation presents. That 17-week experience led to my distrust of the entire OCSD, especially the Coroner's Office. They are truly imcompetent. Whatever they say should be independently reviewed.

This is absolutely disgusting. Shooting unarmed people is the work of a cold-blooded killer. I'm sure this deputy was in the right frame of mind to blow the marine's brains out in front of his children. No, he was angry because the marine wouldn't listen to him. The marine's blood cries out from the ground. Murderer!

I agree that the Deputy Coroner's are a good bunch of people that do a good job under bad circumstances. And I know they do want the truth to come out. I was just saying that the two offices should be separate. We need Medical Doctors who are pathologists preforming autopsies.

My experience with the OCSheriff/Coroner's Office was a negative one. The medical examiner was an M.D., but was only 14 months out of medical school. He went to med school in Guadalajara, then completed a one-year internship at an Army base in Texas. Two months later he determined the cause of death of one my immediate family members, and got it completely wrong. When I complained to then-Sheriff Corona, I received an arrogant, "how dare you question us" response. Three of the four people who's names were on the letterhead of that response, are now convicted felons.

All physicians are required to complete a 1-year internship before they can apply for a license to practice medicine. This used to be known as a "general practitioner". Specialty physicians, including pathologists, are then required to complete a multi-year residency in order to obtain board certification in their field. Medical examiners, like the ones employed by the OCSD, need only complete an internship. They can start deciding how someone died - which is VERY important to a family - just one year after completing med school.

The coroner's deputy in charge of our case was rude, arrogant, inexperienced and uninformed. The SO's on scene were not only rude to us, they were completely unprofessional, making flippant remarks about our deceased family member. I have no use for Orange County sheriff's deputies or coroner's deputies. EVERYTHING that they do or say should be reviewed by an outside investigator.

I am not related to the police or the marines. I'm just a community member following a local story. While it does, indeed, seem to be a tragic outcome for a family who has lost a loving father (by all accounts here) and a full investigation is definitely called for. I think we would all do well to think for a moment - what if this man had been allowed to drive away with two young girls and it turned out he was a sexual predator or kidnapper? Would we then be blaming this officer for not better protecting them?

I'm not excusing the officer because I don't have all the facts, but I'm saying we could all stand to keep an open mind and let the investigation be resolved before making a judgement. Thoughts and prayers to Mr. Loggins' family and to all those connected to this awful event.

Bottomline: Do as commanded or face extermination.

That is the definition of a 'police state'.

Now it is really a cluster:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/loggins-340272-deputy-dominguez.html

I hope the officer gets the death penalty. I cannot find any rational explanation for this cold blooded murder. I know however that he will undoubtedly get a slap on the wrist, maybe some paid time off and then be back on the force in a year or two.

Some of you are going over the top. You want a death penalty for a possible mistake made by an officer? As much as I think the outcome of what happened is horrible, there is no reason to believe it was "cold-blooded murder." Not premeditated, not blood-thirsty nor for personal gain--all of which would apply to criminals. Call it what it probably is--a terrible mistake, poor judgment, a tragedy. But to shout out "string him up" is intentional brutality.

An eye for an eye for an eye ad infinitum. Where does it end? Yes, the truth must absolutely be revealed and appropriate punishment should follow.

Can you say Salem witch trials.......a mob or pack mentality is definitely a frightening event to observe.

In case you all haven't seen this crap! Take a look.. The cops are protecting their own.. AGAIN!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/union-blames-marine-killed-by-deputy-for-fatal-shooting.html

WHOA.....I know there is a lot of anger over this shooting and nothing should be taken lightly but, until we have the needed facts and we still don't,...consider this, why would anyone want to be a policeman and be willing to put their lives on the line 40+ hours a week, 20+ years, to protect people who have such terrible disdain for them. When I read some of these comments, I can't believe anyone is willing to risk their lives for us. Talk about PTSD in the military....what about our private sector protectors. No matter the outcome in the tragedy, probable cause or not....many lives have been severely damaged...including the officer involved, who will have to live with this the rest of his life. I do not like nor do I do think police should over-react but then again I ask, are they actually over-reacting. How do I know they were over-reacting, I wasn't there? I really don't know what I would do, if in their shoes, confronting possible death, on a regular basis. They have a lot to process in mere seconds. That is why we must obey their orders....like it or not.

Also Terry idont think anyone hates the police and agree that its a tough job u have tomake life changing decisions in a nick oftime. At the same time if YOU choose the wrong thing, u shouldnt be excused becauae u tried ur best. Theyhold military to rules of engagemnt with known terrorist, why cant irrational man get them opportunity in the united states?

A lot of losers on this site Mind boggling.
1. Doesn't matter if the cop or the victim were Marines or not. They were humans.
2. Did the victim warrant being murdered when other police personnel were already on the scene.
3. What physic powers did the officer have that made him think that this was a life and death situation?
I have seen, on the tube, police vehicles going like a bat out of Hades chasing someone for not stopping. These chases have run into hours while the police speed after the violator until he crashes into other human beings and kills and maims the victims. Not one of the pursuing 10 police cars, 3 motorcycles or 2 helicopters fire a shot!!! Duhhhh.
Andddd yet this poor guy is killed while standing still?.

Releasing details of the investigation to a union, but not to the public, seems WAY out of wack.

I'd say "Call your elected representitives", but Bates is a "Law and Order (i.e.; police state) Republican, and Calvert owes the cops one for NOT shooting HIM when he tried to drive away in 1993, when two Corona, California, police officers found Calvert with a woman in his car, his pants unzipped and his penis exposed. When one officer spotlit the interior of the vehicle, Calvert attempted to drive away. The officers instructed him to stop three times before he complied. Calvert told the police that he and the woman, who said she was a convicted prostitute and a heroin user, were "just talking."

All:

The investigation very well may prove that the police officer is guilty of a crime and will have to stand trial. There may well be no good justification for what happened. My belief remains that we should allow the investigation to follow it's course before we "rush to judgement." Either way, I'm very sorry for the family and friends of Mr. Loggins.

Some of you people really scare me. Many of you are ready to execute the cop which seems to be exactly what you are complaining he did to the Marine. I'd call that a rush to judgement too. We all still need to wait to see what the investigation brings. Do we know how many and which agencies are doing an investigation? Has NCIS picked it up? Or are we only expecting results from OCSD.

I just feel like the cop will get away with this.. but will pay in a wrongful death suit!

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/956/assets/5DJV_PRESS_RELEASE___2_14_12__AOCDS_Statement_on_SAN_CLEMENTE_DIS.pdf

I don't allow these articles & comments to upset me...So friends & supporters of Manny please don't allow them to upset & anger you also supporters of the deputy...everyone is untitled to there opinion but please do it in a respectively Manner..Lets all be in prayer for both families & also in prayer that the truth is revealed..Stop the name calling & post bullying...I thank all the supporters thats also seeking Justice for Manny...Have a Blessed night

Base command is weighing in on this now.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/marine-commander-displeased-at-comments-about-marine-killed-by-deputy.html

Patch had the story a few minutes earlier: http://sanclemente.patch.com/articles/pendleton-col-criticizes-response-to-marine-killing

A Question for the third time. Why was the Yukon not cleared First. And now wear told "screaming children" or not, Put in a Police car for Protective Custody?

You would think a Female Officer would have been called to help the Children. Or one of the Male Officer with children to help them calm down, as good daddy's do?

You would also think as soon as the Yukon was cleared police cars would block it in from moving with out there OK?

I agree wears the Videdo & Voice

I also like that now there were screaming children, but when they first reported story they reported, no one elses words "it is unclear if there was anyone else in the vehicle" why even comment it at all if you know your lying. Really Mr Amormino? Like you werent briefed before you talked. but wait for the final investigation it will tell the truth...lol whatever it would be nice if it did

I need a definition of what is considered excessive force by police.

A man was shot and killed because he was irrational. That doesn't seem right, any way you look at it unless he was drugged and even then I have heard of plenty of drug cases where they just run them down and brace them down and cuff them and give them the law given right to go to jail for the night and they can get out when they post bail. I think the fact that the cop is just giving us the obvious answer for him that he defended the kids is amazing. He actually is making a defense statement when he says it's also based on what the guy said to him. That is really weak, considering people that are on dope say worse things then anyone can imagine, but yet because they are high it's waived off as just irrationality that will go away when they are sober. How about the cases of domestic violence? Will the cop shoot to kill the man who is being irrational to his wife? I am not condoning violence in the home, but even a violent man has the right to go to jail and not get shot. I am not in law enforcement but it peeves me to read about this and see that there is no reasonable explanation that the cop can come up with in "shooting to kill". That to me, dear readers here, is a case of a cop gone supremely mad and made a choice that will haunt him til the day he dies. I say karma will get him and God will take care of this if the law doesn't.

If only two girls were not traumatized for life, with their father's blood, brains and bone splattered all over them. If only they were not deprived of their loving father forever. If only they would not wake up screaming from the nightmares. If only a toddler could remember her father. If only a baby were not born without a father. If only a wife were not deprived of the support of a loving husband.

There is no doubt that there will be a lot of suffering by all involved, their families and friends. Most likely, they will carry this with them for as long as they live.

Terry, I wonder if the Trooper ran the license plate on the SUV and identified Manny as a Marine NCO. If not, why not. It might have made all the difference.

Connie brought up a very good point here—the kids screamed when they saw the cop shoot their Dad. That definitely would be a natural reaction for anyone, much less a kid. The deputy claims he did it for the sake of the children but what boggles my mind is that he wasn’t at all concerned with the scientific fact of a possible ricochet effect in the car when he shot Manny?
Question: how did the cop know the kids were in the car? Was that discovered before he approached the car or after the fact of shooting Manny? That is the key question to answer for the jury eventually, and the question that will haunt this case when it goes to trial…until it is explicitly answered and there is an end to the trial.
My last point is that Manny was known to run at that location on a regular basis by everyone near or at this location (that would include cops). Also too, if this deputy was fifteen years and an officer of the law, wouldn’t routine checks on license plates be the first thing he would look for as soon as he saw anything?

OK here's how the OCSD handles a eerily similar case in Dan Point last Monday. A dad acting odly (driving the wrong way on PCH) with his two daughters in the car.

It's clear that the OCSD put some spin on the story, and it's also clear that the Orange County Register just went with it.

Here's the blotter record (I'll post the actual record in a "reply")

It's a good thing that deputy Sandberg is on leave. What if he had lulled this man over?

At 1630 a call came in from an informing MOTORIST - NOT the kid, with NFD (no further details).
At 1635 it appears that the child did call 911, and that the CHP was tracking the cell phone.
At 1637 the last cell hit was at Alcazar and PCH.
At 1639 the car is found at Golden Lantern and PCH.
At 1641 - 11 minutes after the first call - the OCSD is informed that the "dad was sick", and dispatch says it may be a diabetic reation.

[2/20/2012 17:59:11 : pos5 : NOORDMANDM] [Cleared with unit 338K] [2/20/2012 17:51:33 : pos5 : NOORDMANDM] Unit : 135 UN 97 SC HOSP EMILE 63195.3 [2/20/2012 17:45:36 : pos5 : NOORDMANDM] Unit : 135 SMILE 63194.0 FROM CITY HALL TO STOP AT PCH AND COPPER LANTERN [2/20/2012 16:41:44 : pos12 : LANGDONMD] 7 YEAR OLD WAS REPORTING HER DAD WAS SICK AND THE VEH WAS STILL MOVING..STA 10 TRANSFER..THEIR DISPATCHER ADVISED POSSIBLE DIABETIC REACTION [2/20/2012 16:39:46 : pos5 : JMURPHY] Unit : 135 OCFA 97 [2/20/2012 16:39:04 : pos5 : JMURPHY] Unit : 338K COPPER LANTERN & PCH [2/20/2012 16:37:47 : pos12 : LANGDONMD] 34000 ALCAZAR [2/20/2012 16:36:51 : pos12 : LANGDONMD] LAST CELL HIT ON ALCAZAR OFF PCH [2/20/2012 16:36:14 : pos12 : LANGDONMD] HAVE UNITS PC ON ALCAZAR [2/20/2012 16:35:33 : pos13 : guzacm] OCFA ENRT TO THE AREA [2/20/2012 16:35:17 : pos5 : JMURPHY] Unit : 332 C3 [2/20/2012 16:35:16 : pos12 : LANGDONMD] PER CHP GOLDEN LANTERN AND DEL PRADO [2/20/2012 16:35:07 : pos5 : JMURPHY] Unit : 338K C3 [2/20/2012 16:30:42 : pos11 : LGALLANT] REQ TO PC THE AREA [2/20/2012 16:30:34 : pos11 : LGALLANT] INF JUST LOST VISUAL LAST TIME HE SAW HIM HE TURNED AROUND AND WAS HEADING THE CORRECT DIRECTION NFD [2/20/2012 16:30:03 : pos11 : LGALLANT] CM LAS RAMBLAS NBH: 972B6 92624 33.46702,-117.669795 VEH TRAVELING EB IN THE WB LANES SILVER VEH POSS A VW NFD